Posts Tagged ‘indo saraswati’

LISTING and Longitudes and Latitudes of the Indus valley civilisation sites in Kachchh‏ (KUTCH)

August 14, 2009
On Tue, 16/9/08, Dr. Bhudia Kutch Science Foundation kutchscience@yahoo.co.in  wrote:
Dear friends of Archaeology and science,
  
  
  
DHOLAVIRA MAP
 
PUNVARESHWAR  AND WADI MEDI
 
YOUR MAIL IS RECIEVED ON YAHOO EMAIL ACCOUNT. IF YOU ARE HARIA FAMILY YOUR ORIGIN STARTS FROM KUTCH  (VAaGAD – RAPAR) AREA NAMED MOMAYMORA  VILLAGE MEANS MOMAYA MATA HILLS IN RAPAR ON THE SIDE WAY TO DHOLAVIRA APPROCH FROM RAPAR. WHERE RAPAR IS ON THE WAY TO DHOLAVIRA FROM BHUJ.
 
 
NAREDI IS NEAR MOTHADA IN ABADASA OF WEST KUTCH. PLACES NEAR NAREDI AND ABADASA ARE AS BELOWS.
 
IF YOU ARE LOOKING JAIN PLACES – ALL ARE MENTIONED IN FIRST PARAGRAPH .
PLACES AROUND NAREDI,
 
 
ANCIENT ROHA FORT BUT IT HAS COLLAPSED DURING EARTHQUAKE. PLACE OF POET “KUTCHI KAVI KALAPI’S IN LAWS PLACE” http://www.panoramio.com/photo/2292285
 
PUNVARO GADH AND PUNVARESHWAR TEMPLE NEAR MANJALl NAKHATRANA. WHERE WADIMEDI AREA HAS 2000BC UNDERGROUND CASTLE. EXCAVATION NOT DONE YET
 
I recently have got interested in the Indus Valley Civilisation, and hence would like to visit such sites in India. Apart from the Dholavira, Kanmer, Kuran, what are the other places worth visiting?
 
 
APART FROM ABOVE INDUS PLACES. – EXCAVATION NOT DONE YET SO PLACES YOU CAN NOT REALISE ELSE LIST WAS SENT TO YOU IN THOMAS MAIL.

THERE ARE OVER 100S INDO SARASWATI CIVILISATIONS IN KUTCH , BUT MAINLY 3-4 TO BE VISITED – DHOLAVIRA, KANMER, KURAN, ETC

TAKE LISTING WITH LONG –

Chitrol 23.24N – 70.40E
Desalpur 23.29N – 69.10E
Dholvira (Kotadi) 23.58N – 70.12E
Gadhwaliwadi 23.30N – 69.03E
Gunthai 23.28N – 69.09E
Jatavadar 23.45N – 70.40E
Kanthkot 23.29N – 70.29E
Kerasi 23.40N – 70.44E
Khakhra Dera 23.34N – 70.29E
Khari-Ka-Khanda 23.27N – 70.19E


Also, you said something about taking permission from local police in your reply to Mr. Thomas; do we have to take permission for visiting Dholavira? Also, do we have to take permission in advance?

Khedoi 23.03N – 69.57E
Kotada Bhadli 1 23.22N – 69.26E
Kotada Bhadli 2 23.22N – 69.26E
Kotada 23.17N – 70.06E
Kotadi 23.58N – 70.12E
Kotara-Juni-Karan 24.00N – 69.45E
Lakhapar 23.33N – 70.28E
Lakhpat 23.50N – 68.47E
Morvo 23.50N – 70.42E
Narapa 23.34N – 69.05E
Nenu-Ni-Dhar 23.51N – 69.44E
Pirwada 23.20N – 70.00E
Pabunath 23.38N – 70.31E
Rampara (Vekera No Timbo) 23.30N – 70.45E
Ramvav 23.32N – 70.28E
Samaghoga 22.55N – 69.40E
Selari 22.42N – 70.37E
Surkotada 23.37N – 70.50E
Todio 23.05N – 69.55E
Vada 23.34N – 69.03E

TO GO DHOLAVIRA PERMISSION IS GRANTED FROM BHUJ DSP POLICE HEADQUATERS http://wikimapia.org/#lat=23.241356&lon=69.6650362&z=17&l=0&m=a&v=2&show=/743317/Supdt-of-Police-Kachchh-Office&search=bhuj – SO IF YOU ARE TRAVELING FROM NAREDI – FIRST NEED TO GO BHUJ FOR PERMISSION LETTER ON THE WAY TO DHOLAWIRA VIA BHUJ AND RAPAR. ELSE NEAREST PLACE TO DHOLAWIAR ARE ANJAR GANDHIDHAM AND RAPAR.
Considering we will be travelling from Mumbai-NareDi-Mumbai, what would be the best route to Dholavira, and the other sites Kanmer, Kuran, etc (that you have mentioned in response to Mr. Thomas’s mail). How far away from each other are they?
 
HOW YOU ARE TRAVELLING ? BY PRIVATE TRANSPORT BEST IS AS YOU ARRIVE FROM BOMBAY FIRST YOU ARRIVE TO BHACHAU AND GANDHIDHAM.(EVEN BY TRAIN OR BUS) SO DHOLAWIRA IS CLOSER FROM THERE BUT YOU NEED TO TAKE PERMISSION LETTER FROM BHUJ SO YOU HAVE TO GO TO BHUJ FIRST.

Would you suggest visiting Bhujjodi, Padhar, Dhaneti, Dhamanka, Lilpur, Anjar, Mandvi, Bhadreshwar? If yes, which would be the best route plan for these villages? Is any prior permission required to visit any of these villages?

MOST NRI DO VISIT BHUJODI NEAR MADHAPR OF BHUJ FOR HANDICRAFT PURCHASE. WORTH VISITING FOR THESE PURPOSE. BHUJODI IS BHUJ 8KM AND MADHAPAR 3KM .
 
THESE DO NOT REQUIRE PERMISSION, BUT WHEN YOU GO TO CLOSE TO BORDER AREA WITH PAKISTAN AND RANN OF KUTCH YOU NEED ONE, AND ALL IN JUST ONE LETTER FROM DSP POLICE HEADQUARTER ONLY, JUST LIKE BLACK HILLS (KALO DUNGAR, KURAN , LAKHPAT KOTESHWAR, SIYOT BUDHA CAVE 1ST CENTURY AD NEAR KATESHWAR  OF LAKHPAT, DHOLAVIRA ETC.) OF KUTCH.
 
 Bhujjodi, (HANDICRAFT) Padhar, Dhaneti, Dhamanka, Lilpur, Anjar, (JESAL TORAL) Mandvi, (BEACH AND JINALAYA) Bhadreshwar?  ANCIENT TEMPLE IS UNDER RENOVATION BUT MOST ANCIENT PLACES THERE ARE
 
 
 
Which are the good museums in Kachchh? Has the the museum in Bhuj reopened for people after it was damaged in the earthquake? How is the museum in Dholavira? What are their timings?
DHOLAVIRA MUSEUM IS ARCHEOLOGICAL NEW MUSEUM AND IS GOOD . OPEN IN DAY TIME DURING VISIT THERE,  MUSEUMS OF KUTCH ABD BHUJ- KUTCH NEWLY BUILD MUSEUM AND IS OPEN NEAR HAMIRSAR LAKE, AINAMAHEL – PRAGMAHEL MUSEUM OF BHUJ DARBAR GADH. AND BHARATIYASANSKRITI MUSEUM OF BHUJ NEAR TOWNHALL OF BHUJ. TIMING YOU MAY CHECK ON THEIR SITES BUT THEY ARE OPEN MORNING AND AFTERNOON TIMES AS WEL AS SAT – SUNDAYS.
  
Also, would you recommend any books on the ‘Indus Valley Civilisation’ and books on ‘Kachchh’, in general?
BOOKS FOR THAT WILL BE AVAILABLE IN BHUJ MUSEUM VISITS AS WELL AS ON INTERNETS. LIKE KUTCH KALA AND KUTCH MUSEUM BOOKS , ALSO VISITS SITES OF DHOLAVIRA ON MANY SITES – AS PANJOKUTCH, ASANJO KUTCH, KUTCH DARSAN, KUTCH SCIENCE, GUJARAT GOVERNMENT TOURISM SITED ETC.
 
 
 
 
From :Yours Dr. Bhudia – Science Group Of INDIA.
President:”Kutch Science Foundation”.
Founder President:”Kutch Amateurs Astronomers Club – Bhuj – Kutch”.
Life Member:”kutch Itihaas Parishad”.
 
 
PLEASE Do visit our BELOW Clubs/Groups of Science club of India, Science Group of India & kutch science foundation and ALSO JOIN US.

 

 
 
 

Do visit our ABOVE Clubs/Groups of Science club of India, Science Group of India.

 

    

LIST OF SITES OF SARASVATI CIVILIZATION of KUTCH
 

SITE                 DISTRICT         SIZE             PERIODS                                                    COORD.             COORD.                     BIBLIOGRAPHY

 

Bhachau           Kutch                                Medieval                                                                                                                    IAR 1985-86: 17

Chitrod             Kutch                                Mature Harappan                                         23 24 00 N          70 40 00 E                   IAR 1977-78: 20     Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Desalpur           Kutch             1.3             Early Historic Mature Harappan                    23 37 00 N         69 08 00E                     IAR 1955-56: 69-70 Rao 1963a: 188, 205

Dholavira         Kutch               60             Mature Harappan                                         23 53 10 N         70 13 00 E                     IAR 1967-68: 17 Amri-Nal Possehl 1980: 97 Joshi et al 1984: 529 Bisht 1989, 1991

Gadhwaliwadi  Kutch                               Mature Harappan                                        23 30 00 N         69 08 00 E                     IAR 1976-77: 74 IAR 1978-79: 94  Joshi et al 1984: 529

Mochirai Zadko  Kutch                              Mature Harappan                                        23 13 00 N         69 37 00 E

 

 

 

BHARASAR dam Kutch                             Mature Harappan                                        23 10 00 N         69 34 00 E

Zura Kotadi      Kutch                               Mature Harappan                                        23 24 00 N         69 36 00 E

Gameri             Kutch                              Medieva Post-urban Harappanl                                                                                     IAR 1985-86: 17

 

 

 

Gunthai             Kutch                             Mature Harappan                                         23 28 00 N         69 09 00 E                     Possehl 1980: 98 Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Jagaroh             Kutch                             Medieval Post-urban Harappan                    23 21 00 N         70 11 00 E                     IAR 1986-87: 29

 

 

 

Jatavadar         Kutch                             Mature Harappan                                         23 45 00 N             70 40 00 E                   Joshi et al 1984: 529

JataVira           Kutch                              Mature Harappan                                       23 27 00 N             69 15 00 E

LAKHIYAVIRA        Kutch                        Mature Harappan                                        23 22 00 N             69 20 00 E

Kotay(Koteshwar)      Kutch                        Mature Harappan                                        23 23 00 N             69 48 00 E

Jhangar Anjar          Kutch                   Mature Harappan                                         23 19 00 N             70 05 00 E                 IAR 1965-66: 14 Possehl 1980: 100 Joshi et al 1984: 528 Joshi 1990b: 418

 

 

 

Jhangar Khavada     Kutch                     Mature Harappan                                         23 53 00 N                 69 44 00 E              Chitalwala 1985: key fig. 8

 

 

 

Juna Chopadwa     Kutch                     Mature Harappan                                         23 16 00 N 70 15 00 E                                 IAR 1986-87: 29

 

 

 

Kanmer             Kutch                         Medieval Mature Harappan                                                                                              IAR 1985-86: 19

 

 

 

Kanthkot             Kutch                         Mature Harappan                                         23 29 00 N                 70 29 00 E                 IAR 1967-68: 17 Possehl 1980: 102 Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Katasar             Kutch                         Late Sorath Harappan                                     23 34 00 N                70 29 00 E                 Rao 1963a: 188, 206 Possehl 1980: 102 Joshi et al 1984: 528

Kerasi             Kutch         30.5           Mature Harappan                                             23 40 00 N                 70 44 00 E                 IAR 1965-66: 12 Possehl 1980: 102 Joshi et al 1984: 529 Joshi 1990: 412

 

 

 

Khakhra Dera     Kutch                       Mature Harappan                                             23 34 00 N                 70 29 00 E                 IAR 1960-61: 8 Possehl 1980: 103 Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Khandariya     Kutch                         Late Medieval Mature Harappan                                                                                          IAR 1985-86: 19

 

 

 

Kharika Khanda     Kutch                     Mature Harappan                                             23 27 00 N                 70 19 00 E                 IAR 1965-66: 14 Possehl 1980: 105 Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Khavda         Kutch                         Mature Harappan                                                                                                                     IAR 1977-78: 20

 

 

 

Khedoi         Kutch                         Mature Harappan                                                 23 03 00 N                 69 57 00 E                 IAR 1970: 13   Microliths IAR 1976-77: 15  Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

Kotada Bhadli One     Kutch     3         Lustrous Red Ware Mature Harappan             23 22 00 N                 69 26 00 E                 IAR 1965-66: 14-6  Possehl 1980: 105 Joshi et al 1984: 529

Kotada Bhadli Three  Kutch             Mature Harappan                                              23 22 00 N                 69 26 00 E                 IAR 1965-66: 14-6 Possehl 1980: 105

Kotada Bhadli Two     Kutch     8         Mature Harappan                                         23 22 00 N                     69 26 00 E                IAR 1965-66: 14-6 Possehl 1980: 105  Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Kotada Kutch             Kutch             Lustrous Red Ware                                             23 18 00 N                     70 06 00 E               Possehl 1980: 106  Mature Harappan Joshi et al 1984: 529

Kotahra             Kutch                      Mature Harappan                                                                                                                     IAR 1977-78: 20

Kateshwar (Lakhpat)    Kutch          Mature Harappan                                               23 46 00 N             68 52 00 E

Kotara              Kutch                     Mature Harappan                                               23 58 00 N                   69 47 00 E                 IAR 1967-68: 17 Possehl 1980: 106 Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Lodai             Kutch                     Mature Harappan Post-urban Harappan                                                                                        IAR 1955-56: 69-70

 

 

 

Lakhasar One     Kutch                 Mature Harappan                                                  23 14 00 N                         70 41 00 E             IAR 1986-87: 29

Lakhasar Two     Kutch                 Mature Harappan                                                   23 14 00 N                         70 41 00 E             IAR 1986-87: 29

 

 

 

Lakhpar             Kutch         8         Mature Harappan                                                 23 33 00 N                         70 28 00 E             IAR 1965-66: 16 Possehl 1980: 107 Joshi et al 1984: 529 Joshi 1990b: 418

Lakhpat             Kutch                 Mature Harappan                                                 23 50 00 N                         68 47 00 E                 IAR 1960-61: 8 Possehl 1980: 108

 

 

 

Luna                 Kutch                 Mature Harappan                                                 23 40 00 N                         69 15 00 E                 Rao 1963a: 206 Possehl 1980: 108 Joshi et al 1984: 528

Luna Mandvi     Kutch Mature Harappan                                                                 22 50 00 N                         69 24 00 E                 Possehl 1980: 108 Joshi et al 1984: 528

 

 

 

Rayan Juni Mandvi     Kutch         Mature Harappan                                               22 52 00 N                         69 21 00 E                 Possehl 1980: 108 Joshi et al 1984: 528

Mandriyara Mohra     Kutch         Medieval Mature Harappan                                  23 30 00 N                     70 16 00 E                     IAR 1986-87: 29

 

 

 

Meghper             Kutch                 Mature Harappan                                                                                                                             IAR 1980-81: 10

 

 

 

Morvo             Kutch                     Mature Harappan                                             23 50 00 N                         70 42 00 E                      IAR 1967-68: 17 Joshi 1972: 114 Possehl 1980: 110 Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Mulu             Kutch                     Mature Harappan                                                                                                                                 IAR 1979-80: 17

 

 

 

Narapa             Kutch                 Mature Harappan                                             23 29 00 N                         69 09 00 E                         IAR 1967-68: 17 Possehl 1980: 110 Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Nadapa Caves    Kutch               Mature Harappan                                             23 19 00 N                         69 55 00 E

Navinal             Kutch                 Mature Harappan                                             22 50 00 N                         69 35 00 E                         Rao 1963a: 206 Possehl 1980: 111 Joshi et al 1984: 528

Nenuni Dhar     Kutch                 Mature Harappan                                             23 51 00 N                         69 44 00 E                         IAR 1967-68: 17 Possehl 1980: 111 Joshi et al 1984: 528-9

Ner Nesdo         Kutch                 Mature Harappan Sorath Harappan                                                                                                      IAR 1980-81: 10  Chitalwala 1985: key fig. 8

 

 

 

Netra Khirasara     Kutch                 Red Polished Ware Mature Harappan                                                                                              IAR 1969-70: 6  IAR 1976-77: 74

Pabumath         Kutch     1.5         Late Sorath Harappan Mature Harappan     23 37 00 N                     70 31 00 E                             IAR 1977-78: 21 Possehl 1980: 111 Joshi et al 1984: 528-9

 

 

 

Paria Waro Mohra    Kutch             Medieval Post-urban Harappan                  23 06 00 N                     70 05 00 E                             IAR 1986-87: 29

 

 

 

Patel Raniji Ka Magsa     Kutch     Post-urban Harappan                                 23 06 00 N                     70 11 00 E                             IAR 1986-87: 29

 

 

 

Pirwada Khetar         Kutch             Mature Harappan                                     23 20 00 N                     70 00 00 E                              IAR 1965-66: 17 Possehl 1980: 112  Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Rampar Vekarano Timbo  Kutch     Mature Harappan                                                                                                                         IAR 1967-68: 9 Posshl 1980: 114

Rampar                                         Sorath Harappan                                                                                                                             Chitalwala 1985: key fig. 8

Rampara              Kutch                 Mature Harappan                                     23 30 00 N                     70 45 00 E                               Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Ramvav             Kutch                 Mature Harappan                                       23 32 00 N                     70 28 00 E                                 IAR 1977-78: 20 Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Samagogha     Kutch                 Late Sorath Harappan Mature Harappan     22 55 00 N                     69 40 00 E                                 Possehl 1980: 115 Joshi et al 1984: 528

 

 

 

Sapara         Kutch                     Mature Harappan                                                                                                                                     IAR 1979-80: 17

 

 

 

Selari         Kutch                     Mature Harappan                                        23 42 00 N                        70 37 00 E                                 IAR 1967-68: 17 Possehl 1980: 115 Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Shikarpur Kutch Kutch     5.3     Mature Harappan                                     23 07 00 N                           70 35 00 E                                 IAR 1986-87: 80

 

 

 

Surkotada         Kutch     1.4     Early to Mature Mature Harappan Harappan  23 37 00 N                 70 50 00 E                                 IAR 1964-65: 12  Possehl 1980: 116 Joshi et al 1984: 528

 

 

 

Toda Timbo     Kutch             Mature Harappan                                                                                                                                     IAR 1955-56: 70

Todio             Kutch               Mature Harappan                                         23 05 00 N                         68 55 00 E                                 Rao 1963a: 188, 207 Possehl 1980: 118 Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Vada             Kutch                 Mature Harappan                                         23 29 00 N                         69 07 00 E                                 IAR 1967-68: 17 Possehl 1980: 118 Joshi et al 1984: 529

 

 

 

Vaidwali Mohra     Kutch         Post-urban Harappan                                                                                                                                 IAR 1985-86: 17

Rapar gadhwari     Kutch         Post-urban Harappan                                23 06 00 N                         68 47 00 E                                                                                              

Rampar Abada wari  Kutch         Post-urban Harappan                             23 20 00 N                         68 48 00 E

Kotada Chakar       Kutch         Post-urban Harappan                               23 06 00 N                         69 44 00 E

Kotada MAD     Kutch                 Post-urban Harappan                               23 28 00 N                         68 54 00 E   

Bhadreshwar         Kutch             Post-urban Harappan                             22 54 00 N                         69 54 00 E   

Gadhada Khadir   Kutch             Mature Harappan                                   23 54 00 N                         70 26 00 E

KANTHKOT           Kutch             Mature Harappan                                   23  29 N                         70 28 00 E

 

 

 
 
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STROMATOLITES which are original organisms of the time of the evolution of life on the Earth. picture of the BAY of kutch and Perth Australlia are attached along with gangeshwar dome strombolites fossils in KUTCH‏

August 14, 2009
From: kutchsciencefoundation@hotmail.com  
  
Dear EDITORIALS, Friends of the Science, History, paleontology and Geology,
  
ISOTOPIC FINGERPRINTS OF MICROBIAL RESPIRATION IN ARAGONITE FROM MODERN BAHAMIAN STROMATOLITES
Geo ARCHEOLOGICAL  LIBRARY LISTING of KUTCH SCIENCE FOUNDATION DIGITAL LIBRARY
 

 

15) 100s of Books of Archaeological library WITH ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ARCHEOLOGY , Forbidden archaeology  including Civilisation and DHOLAVIRA video library, INCA, MAYA, EGYPT, INDUS etc. 

16) 100s of Books of Geological Science Library including fossils and DINO fossils complete sets of Photographic libraries INCLUDING Forbidden Geology, ENCYCLOPEDIA OF GEOLOGY.  including video library INCLUDING Forbidden Geology video.

  

 Many doubts were raised when ETV and Bombay SAMACHAR broadcasted the following news, with doubt that the PURVA – Aadi MANAV ancestor was not existing at that time but now the skeleton evidence came out that the ancestor missing link was there at that time before (about 22 to 5.5 million years ago) between 11 and 16 million years ago.

The partial skeleton of this 13-million-year-old ‘missing link’ was found by palaeontologists working at a dig site near Barcelona in Spain.

That time matches with the Rameshwarm bridge and RAMAVATAR and Koteshwar – RAVANa History (Tretauga), means Formation of MONKEY and Apes army formation by DEVAs. that will rule out all the doubts raised for the PURVA – Aadi MANAV.
Hominid Foot prints found in older layers may have been formed later in the geological process but the study of Photomicrographs and infrared photography is required so that to eliminate that there were no signs of carving or artificial markings in or around the prints. A study of microscopic count of sand grains is ralso required so indicating that the material within the prints had been impacted, and created as the result of a force pressing down on the firmament while it was soft.
These facts show that the prints were made by the natural result of pressure from the human foot, and in no way could have been duplicated by carving nor only the pheneonmena of honeycomb appearance as the study of Photomicrographs and infrared photography can differnciate the compact sand particles under the pressurepoints which are not in honeycomb pattern appearance.
Many geologists and paleontologists do visit with curiocity of the specimen and the subject but have no background of study of Photomicrographs and infrared photography and its geological/paleontological applications so do not have any clue or chance to study those subjects in that angle of research. unfortunately lack of resourses and facility for such a research. 
 
Phase Two Fossils: Burroughs Conjecture
 

 

The most cogent explanation of anomalous fossil footprints is perhaps offered by Dr. William Greely Burroughs, of Berea College in Kentucky. Dr. Burroughs conjecture is that a depression  in fossil-bearing rock may, long after the original fossils have been formed, be filled with a sediment that in its turn may also become the medium in which the impression of a footprint or the body of a creature is fossilized. When this second period of fossilization is complete the newly formed rock may be indistinguishable from the older formation, and the new fossils may appear to have formed at the same time as those which are much older. Thus, several fossilization processes may wind up looking like a footprint made at the same time. This is undoubtebly the case in many instances, but the theory is lacking in several respects. Firstly, fossilized human footprints have been found deep within rocks that show no evidence of discontinuous formation, not just at the junction of sedimentary layers. Secondly, out of place fossils are often inconsistent not only with the ages of associated fossils but also with the rock strata and the age conventionally ascribed to them.
 
New Study Supports Idea That Primates, Dinosaurs Coexisted !!!!
 

 

Sientists have acquired new data supporting the idea that the last ancestor shared by all living primates walked with the dinosaurs more than 80 million years ago. The results came from a new technique used to reconstruct the course of animal evolution.

Previously, opposing scientific camps estimated that the animal that gave rise to the primates lived as recently as 55 million years ago and as long ago as 90 million years. The newly proposed date is closer to the older end of the range.

That’s significant because the older estimate, which was derived from studies based on molecular genetics, identifies the earliest primates as contemporaries of the dinosaurs. The younger date, which was based on fossil records, represents a period after the dinosaurs had already become extinct. ‘Our results agree broadly with a molecular estimate [and] contradict widely accepted palaeontological estimates,’ Simon Tavaré of the University of Southern California and his colleagues reported in the journal Nature. Their finding sprang from a scientific collaboration that straddled the fields of biology and mathematics and spanned research centers from California to the Swiss Alps. Working with colleagues from Harvard University, the University of Washington, Chicago’s Field Museum, and institutions in England and Switzerland, Tavaré used a novel mathematical approach to help answer a major piece of the evolutionary puzzle. Past Views The search for the first primate—that is, the last animal to have been an ancestor of all members of the primate family tree—has long intrigued scientists and others interested in humanity’s evolutionary origins. From the oldest known fossil remains of primates, paleontologists have determined that some ancient members of our evolutionary family lived and died at least as far back as 55 million years ago. Fossils alone, however, cannot disclose precisely when members of the last common ancestral species began to segregate into distinct populations that eventually gave rise to the modern array of some 200 primate species. That’s because the fossil record is incomplete. Paleontologists can’t tell how close any particular specimen was to the progenitor of the primates. So, to approach the problem from another angle, scientists in the field of molecular genetics have compared subtle differences in the DNA of living primates.
 
Geneticists can tell how recently two species diverged from a common ancestor from information etched in the organisms’ genes: The fewer differences researchers find between two genetic codes, the more recently the species parted evolutionary company.
Using this method, geneticists have concluded that about 90 million years have elapsed since all living primates shared their last common ancestor.
Based on such studies, evolutionary biologists such as Pennsylvania State University’s Blair Hedges believe that early primates lived alongside the great reptiles. ‘[Primates and other] major groups of mammals evolved for tens of millions of years before the dinosaurs became extinct,’ Hedges said. That mass extinction occurred about 65 million years ago.Fleshing out the Fossil Record

To reconcile the genetics-based date with the comparatively young estimates of paleontologists, Tavaré and his colleagues fashioned an evolutionary tree of the primates as it’s known from fossils.

Not wanting to depend entirely on what paleontologists have turned up, the researchers then fleshed out the rudimentary tree with educated guesswork. They used mathematical equations to predict how many species of primates are not represented in the fossil record, and to predict when and for how long those species may have lived.

The resulting model—based loosely on hard evidence but expanded to take into account species that lived and died out but remain unknown to science—suggests that the earliest primate lived about 81.5 million years ago, long before the age of the oldest fossils uncovered by paleontologists.

‘Naturally,’ said Hedges, ‘I am pleased with this result because it shows agreement with our molecular-clock studies.’

Tavaré’s team suggested that the earliest primates might have been small, nocturnal creatures that inhabited tropical forests. But, assuming they did exist that long ago, numerous forms could have evolved prior to the fateful cataclysm that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.

That event, presumably caused by a giant impact from outerspace, didn’t wipe out all primates living at the time, but probably spared relatively few of them, Tavaré theorized. Those primates that survived would have subsequently evolved into myriad species.

‘Of course, this is all speculation,’ Tavaré acknowledged. ‘We have not found any fossils in that bin yet.’

In fact, scientists may never know how these proposed lost kin of ours looked—or be certain they existed at all—unless paleontologists someday recover fossilized remains. 

FROM YOURS Dr.BHUDIA-Science Group Of INDIA.
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/venustransit_2004/

President:’Kutch Science Foundation’.
Founder :’Kutch Amateurs Astronomers Club – Bhuj – Kutch’.
Life Member:’kutch Itihaas Parishad’.
kutchscience@yahoo.co.in, kutchscience@hotmail.com,
http://uk.geocities.com/wildlifeofkutch/
/http://www.geocities.com/kutchscience
/http://profiles.yahoo.com/kutchscience2000
 
// 

More Information of  Stromatolites @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromatolite 

‘The Strombolites‘ was inspired by a visit to a lake south of Perth, one of two places in Australia where ‘strombolites‘ can be seen. These are a kind of ‘living’ rock which date back to the dawn of life on Earth

 

Though geologist all over the world do visit to research in Kutch but Geological study has not been given such a priority in KUTCH. Kutch do have fossilised strombolites in Gangeshwar dome area. when it was under shalow sea water it has LIVING fossils at that time but later with the uplift of the area from the sea bed. those fossils are plenty on the gangeshwar hill area.

 

Though Australians and Americans geologist has dome more to study similar fossils in PERTH of AUSTRALIA. none of geologist has given the time to the strombolites foosils of  Gangeshwar dome of KUTCH. similarly Bay of Kutch is full of misteries. Diving in bay of kutch reveals a beutiful coral seabed and planty of Living STROMATOLITES which are original organisms of the time of the evolution of life on the Earth. picture of the BAY of kutch and Perth Australlia are attached along with gangeshwar dome strombolites fossils in KUTCH

  

Which proves the KUTCH land formation is since the LIFE evolved on the Earth and well beyond the time we think. and need more study of the fossil records. documentry film for this subject is vailable for reference study in the Geological Library of KUTCH SCIENCE FOUNDATION GEOLOGICAl section.

 

Geology Department, Univ of California at Davis, Davis, CA 95616, sumner@geology.ucdavis.edu and ANDRES, Miriam S., Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science, University of Miami, 4600 Rickenbacker Causeway, Miami, FL 33149

In honor of Prof. Ginsburg and the numerous insightful conversations we have had with him, we present new results on processes causing lithification in modern Bahamian stromatolites. As Ginsburg has argued for longer than we have been scientists, understanding how modern stromatolites or “strombolites” form and lithify is critical to properly interpreting the origins of ancient stromatolites. Microbial roles in stromatolite lithification can be traced in carbonates because microbial communities produce carbon isotopic shifts when they cycle local DIC (dissolved inorganic carbon). Thus, the isotopic composition of carbonates can record ancient microbial CO2 cycling, providing insights into the processes of stromatolite growth and microbial influences on carbonate chemistry.
In shallow subtidal modern stromatolites from Highborne Cay, Bahamas, authigenic aragonite preserves a carbon isotopic record of heterotrophic microbial influences on DIC; authigenic aragonite is >1 per mil depleted in 13C relative to aragonite that precipitated in equilibrium with local seawater. Even though cyanobacteria raise pH during peak photosynthesis, more aragonite precipitates when and where respiration influences local DIC. These results are consistent with 1) sulfate reduction promoting carbonate precipitation and 2) calcium release during decay of exopolymeric substances as previously reported. Thus, heterotrophs play a more important role than phototrophs in Bahamian stromatolite lithification on a local scale. However, organic matter produced by cyanobacteria supports the heterotrophic community. Thus, the absence of an autotrophic isotopic signature in the rock record cannot imply the absence of photosynthetic activity.

Heterotrophic signatures may also be difficult to observe in ancient stromatolites. With continued lithification, the 1-2‰ δ13C shifts will be diluted by carbonate precipitation during early diagenesis and burial. Thus, microbial isotopic signatures in shallow subtidal stromatolites are only likely to be identified in exceptional circumstances. Identifying ancient microbial signatures will require careful sampling to separate carbonate components with different isotopic signatures and carbonates that precipitated on the spatial scales influenced by microbial communities.


If oyu are just waiting to hear for the Hominid Fossils found in the KUTCH, your wish will be copleted very soon in near future! teams are working to get the perfect evidence proofs and soon reach to conclusion to clear the confusions.
Do not be surprised if you get a good vews of unexpected HOMINID fossil find in the KUTCH of GUJARAT INDIA. Though most of the geologist stick to the darwinian beliefs, But thats not the coplete truth and thats the reality that darwinian theory is not the coplete science of creation of the GOD.
Many of the geologist are in favour of the New Study Supporting the Idea That Primates and Dinosaurs Coexisted. and  Many geologists do stay away from those Geologist but must not afraid of these but dare to read their finding facts too.
GEOLOGIST opposing those viws must read the BOOK about the hominid evolution,  the canals studied of many living primates, ‘Review of Forbidden Archaeology: The Hidden History of the Human Race.’  

Books and Documentry Filming evedenses are avilable for reference ONLy at out Science library geology sections.
MANY GEOLOGISTS did LAUGH when first news of fossils of GIANTS CROCODILION published very first time just after the KUTCH EARTHQUAKE in 2001. But Now atleast FOUR crocodillion fossil specimens are discoverd from Kutch sediments. Though many have not visited those museum places to see them may be lack of information to them.

But here is details of those 1) in PANDHROW Mine GEOLOGY MUSEUM at PANDROW – KUTCH @ http://wikimapia.org/#lat=23.6896473&lon=68.7201691&z=14&l=0&m=a&v=2&search=Panandhro
2) Bharatioya SANSKRITI DARSHAN Museum of BHUJ – SPECIMAN PICTURES MAP AND LOACTION @  http://wikimapia.org/#lat=23.241982&lon=69.6648324&z=18&l=0&m=a&v=2&show=/884307/Bharatiya-Sankriti-Darsan-Museum
3) specimen is under process of retrieving
and the 4) the very first and the BIGGEST OF ALL is been destroyed due to lack to understand the preserving the precious fossil treasere.

Information of GEOLOGICAL and ARCHEOLOGICAL importance of AREA of MADHAPAR

August 14, 2009
Subject: Information of GEOLOGICAL and ARCHEOLOGICAL importance of AREA of MADHAPAR
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:48:01 +0000

From: kutchsciencefoundation@hotmail.com 

During our research expeditions during LAST DACADE in all parts of KUTCH, we have found very exiting unexplored civilisation places INCLUDING and apart from the world famous places of DHOLAVIRA, KOTI KURAN, AND KANMER. THOSE are Video recorded and Photographed for Scientific research recordings. Including many unseen SHILALEKHS, lost documentary evidences, and new findings. 
INDUS CIVILISATION closest to BHUJ is MADHAPAR

 

, Do not be surprised if you hear from any body that Madhapr of BHUJ – KUTCH is an Indus place.
ARCAEOLOGICAL information of MADHAPAR in HARAPPAN TIME. MADHAPAR is an INDUS civilisation. records are in out Science library and in ARCHAEOLOGY department BHUJ branch of Government of GUJARAT archaeological DEPARTMENT.
ARCHAEOLOGICAL DETAILS OF MADHAPAR:-

 

yes that is true. If you are in any doubt do not hesitate to contact the department of archaeology in bhuj near middle school of BHUJ.
Area near the lake of MAGJIrai lake and area around it between river PAT of Madhapar and River Dhoravaav is that area but as the area is industrialised and used for agriculture and also lake has been dug out in past with new developments , all positive findings may be lost but that’s the BARE TRUTH.
PLACE NAMED WITH “RAI” ARE OLD LAKES ARE CIVILISATION PLACES  (we have +100 archaeological places of Kutch recorded with LONGITUDE LATITUDE) 

 
MOCHIRAI OF SUKHPAR – 40 HARAPPAN GRAVES ARE FOUND IN BAJARIYUN GAAM AREA and Ancient canal structures are recorded at Kalyanpar area.
SADHURAI OF GODPAR, JAMORAI BETWEEN GODPAR AND MANUKUVA, VICHANDRAI OF MANUKUVA AND MAGJIRAI OF MADHAPAR.

 

 

 

SAR – MEANS SAROVAR ARE OLD CIVILISATION PLACES IN KUTCH.

 

BALASAR VAGAD NEAR GADHADA RASAJI DEVISAR – HAS MORE THAN ONE AREA OF
BHARASAR – HARAPPAN DAM AREA, CIVILISATION AREA DEVISAR AND JATAWADA
VADASAR – TARO -TALAV AREA OF THE VILLAGE BHADRESAR – BHADRESWAR
SUMARASAR – NENUNI DHAR CIVILISATION KHIRASARA , DAHISARA , MODSAR, Anandsar


MORO – MORA MEANS TAKARO – TIMBO  

 

SARLI TIMBO – JIWA TIMBO ARE VEKRA RAMPAR OF BHUJ
VEKARA TIMBO OF VAGAD MOMAY MORA etc

GADH AND GADHADA OF KUTCH 

DEVPARGADH, RAPAR GADH GADHWARI WADI – MEGHPAR IN BHUJ
GADHADA RASAJI NEAR BALASAR IN VAGAD,  GADHADA OF KHADIR NEAR RATANPAR GADHWARIWADI – KHIRSARA NETRA NAKHATRANA
GADHSHISHA PANDYANO GADH etc GADHADA OF BHAVNAGAR ON RIVER BANKS OF GHELO RIVER


KOT – KOTADA – KOTDI OF KUTCH  

 

KOTADA IN ZURA,  KOTADA JADODAR KOTADA BHADLI THARAVADA IN NAKHTRANA KOTADA THARAVADA IN ANJAR,  KOTADA – KOTADI OF DHOLAVIRA
KOTADA CHAKAR REHA – UGAMANA AND ATHAMANA KOTADA – GADHADO AREA HAS GADH IN GROUNDS  Kotada (Roha) has OLD KOTDA near village Kotada and Khirasara, KANTH KOT,
KATESHWAR – LAKHAPAT KOTAY KOTESHWAR
NARAYAN SAROVAR ALSO KOTADA CHANDRANI
KOTAD AND KOTADA UNCHA OF MAHUVA BHAVNAGAR KOTADA SANGANI ON BAY OF BANKS OF KUTCH – MORVI


Collected information has been given to ARCHEOLOGICAL DEPARTMENT of BHUJ – KUTCH branch including Archeological Library information at out KUTCH SCIENCE FOUNDATION LIBRARY. LAST visit document presented to the DEPARTMENT of ARCHEOLOGY AT BHUJ. If picture is not seen here it is attached with ths Email as
Department of Archaeology BHUJ.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Department of Archaeology BHUJ.JPG
 

 

 

Kutch is world famous for its fossil sites, 80% types of fossils of the world are available in KUTCH, MADHAPAR is also is full of famous fossils. And many of geologist / palaeontologists regularly visits different part of Fossil sites.

Hills south 4-5 km of Madhapar is KHATROL Hill range and full of different types of fossils. And so regularly many university arrange geological research and camping in this area. This area is LOCALLY KNOWN as DUNGAR WARA MAHADEV – GANGESHWAR MAHADEVA (geologically GANGESHWAR DOME of KHATROL Hill range) area and “GUNO”  is Known as GUNAWARI RIVER.

Here you can see thousands of fossils of ancient marine animals like AMMONITES, BELEMNITES, WOOD FOSSILS, STROMBOLITES and including fossil riverbed.Some of pictures are attaché here for more details one can request high resolution images.

 

 

  

All details are in reference GEOLOGY LIBRARY section 16)

 

Iincluding PICTUER and Video Library of GEOLOGY details of the places of  KUTCH, Geological Science Library including fossils and DINO fossils complete sets of Photographic libraries INCLUDING Forbidden Geology, ENCYCLOPEDIA OF GEOLOGY.  including video library

 

 
FROM YOURS Dr.BHUDIA-Science Group Of INDIA.
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/madhapar/   
 
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/madhaparnavavas/
President:’Kutch Science Foundation’.
Founder :’Kutch Amateurs Astronomers Club – Bhuj – Kutch’.
Life Member:’kutch Itihaas Parishad’.

 http://uk.geocities.com/wildlifeofkutch/  
 http://profiles.yahoo.com/kutchscience2000
/
 http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/scienceclubofindia/  
 http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/kutchscience/
 http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/kachchh

 


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Genetic Science is the key to the BLACK AND WHITE of the clues of the all civilisations and Ancestry.‏

August 14, 2009

Genetic Science is the key to the BLACK AND WHITE of the clues of the all civilisations and Ancestry.
 

From: kutchsciencefoundation@hotmail.com 

Complementary information of previous email confirmation with Genetic proofs -Ancient civilisation of Kutch and its relation to all ancient civilisation all over the world‏

Dear EDITORIALS, Medicos, Friends of the Science, History, ARCHEO – Anthropology and GEO-Archaeology, 

People carry their traditions of the life and the culture trough their generations and where ever they go. E.g. Farming traditions and techniques, they take with where ever they go to in this world and through their generations they do carry on for many generations.

Similarity of farming in our traditional farming of INDO ASIAN, today’s Egypt  (Original ANCIENT name is MUDRAYA) and other African countries as well as Mexican (Mayan), and Latin Americans suggest that those traditional similarities are common and so must have a common source of such  farming techniques.

Similarly similarities of clothing weaving of all those cavitations are more or like same. And from similar farming materials e.g. cotton. Today also Animal care also matches with shepherds of the INDO ASIANS, Afro Egyptians Americans. Though Our Indo Asian shepherds, RABARIES, Negros and red Indians genetically differs from each other, Similarity in life style appears in Most of their life style.

Mexicans – MAYANS use only traditional MERI GOLD offering ceremony to their ancestors as our traditions. Though now a days many changes we see as using different flowers. Ornamental similarities appear in most of the civilisations of the world.

Surprisingly construction techniques of the ancient time and today’s traditional construction match to each other. Much of the work has been done and published for the Pyramids construction methods, but none of such research been carried out for Indo-Saraswati civilisation construction methods. We are happy to COPY the clips of the Computer simulation of the DHOLAVIRA town ship from Indus: The Unvoiced Civilization films of HUMANITY http://rave.ohiolink.edu/dmc/video/2790702  to our documentary for Dholavira and to accept the Award for such PLAGIARISM

 

MOST OF THE DOCUMENTRY PUBLISHERS DO VISIT THE PLACE AND DOCUMENT THE PRESENT VIEW OF THE PLACE AND BUT AVOIDING THE PLAGIARISM, Plagiarism is the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one’s own original work.

Copyright: Films for the Humanities & Sciences
View Video IF YOU ARE AUTHORISED TO SEE rtsp://video.ohiolink.edu:554/WebVid/83304-2790702.smil
Download Video
IF YOU ARE AUTHORISED TO DOWNLOAD http://worlddmc.ohiolink.edu/Images/Bdg/VideoMDS/d42/1066243125-15120-26135-132496-364-1983012051.11655-a-nt.rm  

Construction techniques during the Megalithic period, INDO SARASWATI civilisations, do match most of the civilisations but none tried to compare and demonstrate neither in documentaries nor on the computer graphic simulations. The reason is the lack of the knowledge and the information of those construction techniques.

 

But surprisingly some casts descending from the North of the Indo-Saraswati  river basin regions do other parts of the world has maintained such traditional construction techniques.

Since many centuries a traditional house building methods used by KANBI tribes descended from North from SAPTA SINDHU regions of Himalaya, is exactly similar to those of Indo-Saraswati houses with double layered stone walls. And still few OLD Housings still persists of such wall types. (Such Photographic and Video recordings are available for reference viewing from Library records of archaeological section of Kutch science Foundation Library.)

(All Photographic records can be seen by request and reference can be used from Kutch Science foundation Library the relevant Medical, genetics, Biology, and Archaeology library sections)

15) Archaeological library WITH ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ARCHEOLOGY , Forbidden archaeology  including Civilisation and DHOLAVIRA video library, INCA, MAYA, EGYPT, INDUS etc. 

 

Doubt may rise from many part of it as are any of those tribes inheriting any Ancestry, but all the BLACK and White can be cleared with GENETICS SCIENCE study of those tribes and those of Anthropological specimens of the Civilisations and Megalithic culture of that civilisation and period there after.

Haplogroup M (mtDNA)
 
In human genetics, Haplogroup M is a human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroup.(ONLY DERIVED FROM MATERNAL GENES maternal mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroup)

Genetic evidence Haplogroup H (Y-DNA) In human genetics, Haplogroup H (M69) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup.

MAYA and Mayan books of Mexico suggest that Indian crossed the Atlantic from Europe and lived in Mexican caves before 20000 years ago. Decoding is available – books original information are available for reference form the reference library. Including MAYAN CODOSIS  and decoding Mayan language.

CIVILISATION started in river basin areas of saraswati and INDUS and spread to middle east , Europe and than across the atlantic to Mexico and southern america – Peru and Andis, BUt how they cross the ATLANTIC. about 10000 years ago english chennel was frozen to ice so gypsis (original Indian origin as they believe themselves of INDIAN origin – SEE GENETIC DNA reports bootom of this email) crossed to british land, worshiped at STONEHENGE, worshiping SUN (suryavanshi), to cross an ATLANTIC ocean they go further north to SCANDINAVIA (so finis – scandinavian has similar GENETIC DNA similarity with Indian origin and differes from rest of Scandinavian tribes and rest of europeans too) to cross to CANADIAN part and then south to MEXICO and to PERU and ANDIS regions.

(Mexican Maya civilisations authentic book we have gives information as people of Indian – asian origin came from across Europe to Maxico caves and stayed there in caves some 20000 yeras back – similar evidense found MARUDA TAKKAR an oldest port of  the world in the middle of present SALT RANN and lake of INDUS SARASWATI at the time 20000 years ago)

Romani people (Gypsies or Gipsies)
 
The Romani people[46][47], Roma people[48][49][50] or Romany people are an ethnic group with origins in South Asia.[51][52] The Romani people are a widely dispersed ethnic group, with the largest concentrated populations in Europe and the Americas.[53][54] They are often referred to as Gypsies or Gipsies. 
 
Origins

The absence of a written history has meant that the origin and early history of the Roma people was long an enigma. As early as 200 years ago, cultural scholars hypothesised an Indian origin of the Roma based on linguistic evidence[83]. Genetic information confirms this.
Although the Nazis claimed that the Gypsies were not Aryan,[citation needed] some members of the Gypsy Lore Society (established in 1888 in England) claimed that the Gypsies were the most ancient Aryans and “sought to protect them from mixing with non-Gypsy elements and from modernization…”.[84]

Linguistic evidence

Until the mid to late eighteenth century, theories of the origin of the Roma were mostly speculative. Then in 1782, Johann Christian Christoph Rüdiger published his research that pointed out the relationship between the Romani language and Hindustani.[85] Subsequent work supported the hypothesis that Romani shared a common origin with the Indo-Aryan languages of Northern India,[86] with Romani grouping most closely with Sinhalese in a recent study.[87]
The majority of historians accepted this as evidence of an Indian origin for the Roma, but some maintained that the Roma acquired the language through contact with Indian merchants.[88]
 
An  ADDITIONAL readings of BIOMEDICAL, GENETICS, GENETIC STUDY of DNA  in our GENETICS Library of Kutch science foundation.

Biology Complete Library  +500s of Books

Human Anatomy Science and complete Medical Library for medical university and research students. + 1500 BOOKS

Full medical science library, medical dictionary and Ayurvedic information library INCLUDING BIOMEDICAL, GENETICS, + 1500 BOOKS

The Place of the Indian mtDNA Variants in the Global Network Maternal Lineages and the Peopling of the Old World
HUMAN MITOCHONDRIAL DNA HAPLOGROUP R IN INDIA DISSECTING
Fundamental genomic unity of ethnic India is revealed by analysis of mitochondrial DNA
Eurasia Populations genetics mtDNA HAPLOGROUP
Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages
BMC Phylogeography of mtDNA haplogroup R7 in the Indian peninsula 
Population substructure in Finland and Sweden revealed

 

THOUGH MANY STUDIES HAVE been published for genetic study of Romans, Egyptian, Mayan, Eskimos, Scandinavians, finis, tribes of Indian and Indo-Asians, but not specific to the tribes in Kutch and Indo-Saraswati river basin tribes. Need to Do that part of genetic study to clear all Black and white of all such puzzles. And that’s the Best key to all.

As in Finland some people differ genetically from the rest of the population, they are traced genetically from genes of possibly those of the Indo Saraswati river basin tribes ancestry (e.g. Megh MAARU, Sindhis, Jats, Rajputs of 36 KULs, Aryans, Ahirs, RABARIES, KANBIes etc.). So they are eager to trace their ancestry genes from those tribes and so wish to make a Genetic study of those tribes as early as possible and so they are in constant touch with Science foundation and gathering all information from Genetic Science library of Kutch science foundation. 

 

Such work of Genetic science study will clear all doubts and clouds from any doubts raised.

 

From yours: Dr. BHUDIA : Science Group Of INDIA.
 http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/venustransit_2004/ 
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Life Member:’kutch Itihaas Parishad’.

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Unique INDIAN CULTURED Pakistan community under threat http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8083048.stm‏

August 14, 2009
Unique INDIAN CULTURED Pakistan community under threat

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8083048.stm

last updated at 23:45 GMT, Wednesday, 10 June 2009 00:45 UK

Subject:
KALASH KUMBH) valley civilisation and Chitral Culture civilisations in the area of NW frontier of Pakistan – in Hindukush valley area and khaibar valley area of the Himalayan region

Dear Docs, Medicos, friends of  Nature, HISTORY,  ARCHEOLOGY, science, cultural Science, GENOLOGY, Mythology,
 
DNA forum discussion on origin of civilisation and their Indian origin
 
 I just visited site of DNA forum, Due to partial/incomplete and because of lack of full linguistic and archaeological experience, similarly KALSH CHITRAL – most of have not visited nor studied they are just reading from internet source. but need to understand all festivals, customs, language etc. I have pictures of INDRA carved in mountains if those KALASH VELLY. CHAUMAS – 4 months of farming. chitral is not written with “S” but pronounced  “s” as “Shetral” mean FIELD in KHOWAR lenguage. they worship SHETRA pal as we do as KHETAR pal, geneticaly they are Indo Aryans & many more
Civilisations of Indus and Saraswati did disappeared long before with the time but as some civilisation moved upstream of the Indus to survive from the attacks from outsiders. so they moved deep in Himalayan hindukush and khaibar valley areas. so they remained undetected and survived till today.
Known of those are KALASH (KALASH – KUMBH ) valley civilisation and Chitral Culture civilisations in the area of NW frontier of Pakistan – in Hindukush valley area and khaibar valley area of the Himalayan region. both the valley area are on the tributaries of  INDUS RIVER BASIN – traced on the satellite maps of Indus river basin and confirmed those are on the banks of tributaries of INDUS RIVER BASIN only. Satellite vies are in out library to explore.
 
When most of the area is loosing a traditional culture with an effect of the modernisation. there are some isolated areas are still maintaining their traditions.
Though there has been effects of the Political and religious take over but as those are Isolated remote area of Himalaya valley are of Khaibar Ghat and hindukush valley of Himalaya they could retain the original traditions but soon will be lost if not supported.
 
Below are some of pictures – 6 –  included in mails but if not found with mail – can be requested with a personal request mail.
 
 
   
        1) Josh festival KALASH                         2) Josh festival KALASH-Culture dressed women                   3) Sketches on the KALASH Hills  
 
                                                                              img_5346 

4)Swastika in A column inside one of the oldest Kalash temples  5) AUM TRADITIONAL CRAFT in CHITRAL  6) Kalash carving effect


 

Kalash woman
The Kalash community have their own distinct cultur

Pakistan’s North West Frontier Province (NWFP) is today arguably one of the most dangerous places in the world.
But while that may be true of regions where the Taliban proliferate, there are still areas of NWFP where life goes on as normal.
The most prominent of these is the Kalash region in the northern-most district of Chitral.
It is named after the Kalash tribe which has been settled here since time immemorial.

See a map of the region

The tribe, said to be descendants of Alexander the Great’s soldiers, still practise an ancient pagan culture unlike any other in this part of the world.
For centuries, the Kalash have been a people apart.
In modern times, they have become a major tourist attraction, but in so doing have also attracted the ire of Islamic clerics.
This has led to many of them derogatively referring to the Kalash region as Kafiristan, or “land of the unbelievers.”
Unique heritage
This ill-will was largely restricted to slogans and sermons – until the coming of the Taliban.

Kalash valley
The valley was at one point conquered by Alexander the Great

But that is not the only challenge facing this dwindling community – many educated young Kalash men have chosen to convert to Islam.
In doing so, they have abandoned the community to seek a life in the cities and a more upscale existence.
All these factors are combining to erase a unique heritage.
Hundreds of years ago about 3,000 Kalash people made their home in the Birir, Rumbur and Bumburet valleys among the Hindu Kush mountains of Chitral.
Generally speaking, the people of Chitral, Muslim or Kalash, are liberal when it comes to religion.
But the Taliban threat has now jeopardised all that, with the neighboring district of Upper Dir firmly under their control.
“Chitral is one of the most peaceful regions in Pakistan,” Abdul Wali, a local lawyer says.
“All communities here have brotherly relations with each other.
“People here believe culture has precedence over religion.”
Enthusiastic
The Kalash in Chitral have four festivals to celebrate the seasons.

Security forces in Kalash valley
The area is becoming increasingly squeezed by the Taliban

The summer festival is the most well attended with people coming from all over the country and the world.
This year there are fewer foreign visitors, but they are present. Among them is Glasgow resident Patricia Fort with her son Leon.
“This is the second time I have come here…this time to show it to my son,” she said.
Her son Leon is equally enthusiastic.
“I got to know about this place from my mother, heard all the stories about the Kalash, saw pictures and knew I had to come,” he said.
“The scenery is incredibly beautiful, and the people are very friendly.”
Dangers
But now a shadow lies over the event as the security forces are deployed to fend off the Taliban.

Kalash woman
The Kalash culture is increasingly under threat

Checkpoints litter the road leading to the festival venue and local hospitals have been put on red alert.
“There is a rumour going around that the Taliban will attack the festival,” Dr Jahangir Khan, medical officer at a local hospital said.
“There is the situation in Dir, and we are just across the border from Afghanistan.
“We have been put on 24-hour emergency standby for as long as the festival lasts.”
The Kalash continued with their festival despite the dangers.
In a region wracked by conflict, their simple ways seem like echoes from another time.
Beautiful women adorned in black robes splattered with bright colours and with necklaces of sparkling stones dance to ancient tunes.
The music is played by the men who occasionally break out in song.
“They are singing of their happiness to God,” says Munir, a Kalash man.
“They are thankful that water is plentiful in the rivers and crops are ripening.
“The trees are bearing fruit and prosperity is coming to our homes.”
But how much longer the Kalash community can sing of the joys of life is open to doubt. The Taliban are not now that far away.

map
By yours Dr.BHUDIA-Science Group Of INDIA.
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/venustransit_2004/
President:’Kutch Science Foundation’.
Founder :’
Kutch Amateurs Astronomers Club – Bhuj – Kutch‘.
Life Member:’kutch Itihaas Parishad’.
 
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http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/scienceclubofindia
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Ancient civilisation of KUTCh and its relation to all ancient civilisation all over the world‏ Genetic evidences Haplogroup H Y-DNA and Haplogroup M mtDNA‏

August 14, 2009

From: kutchsciencefoundation@hotmail.com 

Complementry information of previous email confirmation with Genetic proofs -Ancient civilisation of KUTCh and its relation to all ancient civilisation all over the world‏

Dear EDITORIALS, MEDCOs, Friends of the Science, History, ARCHEO – Anthropology and GEO-Archeology, 
 
When ever evolution of life and human evolution comes in disscussion dispute always comes forward. and when it comes to explanations in Purans is goes only to beliefs and mythology. But is that all? NO Genetic science comes in favour to solve all those questions.
 
CIVILISATION started in river basin areas of saraswati and INDUS and spread to middle east , Europe and than across the atlantic to Mexico and southern america – Peru and Andis, BUt how they cross the ATLANTIC. about 10000 years ago english chennel was frozen to ice so gypsis (original Indian origin as they believe themselves of INDIAN origin – SEE GENETIC DNA reports bootom of this email) crossed to british land, worshiped at STONEHENGE, worshiping SUN (suryavanshi), to cross an ATLANTIC ocean they go further north to SCANDINAVIA (so finis – scandinavian has similar GENETIC DNA similarity with Indian origin and differes from rest of Scandinavian tribes and rest of europeans too) to cross to CANADIAN part and then south to MEXICO and to PERU and ANDIS regions. (Mexican Maya civilisations authentic book we have gives information as people of Indian – asian origin came from across Europe to Maxico caves and stayed there in caves some 20000 yeras back – similar evidense found MARUDA TAKKAR an oldest port of  the world in the middle of present SALT RANN and lake of INDUS SARASWATI at the time 20000 years ago)
 
SIMILARLY origin of life started on earth some 2Bn years ago. as science says also proves by Vedis scienec and vedic maths calculations. vedic calculative file is aatched to email as an attachemnt of MAHAYUGA.XLS
 
According to vedas AT AD 1999 FROM KALP START(ARAMBHA)TIME 1.99E+09 = 1990013100 match to scienec evedence of 2Bn years more accurately.
 
STROMATOLITES study of origin of life on Earth is studies in STROBOLITES of AUSTRALLIAN study of PERTH but not KUTCH STROMBOLITES in STROMATOLITES of BAY of KUTCH. at that time bothe parts were united together with african continent. (AFRICA – AUSTRALLIA And INDIAN continental plate and KUTCH) we have records and Pictuere of KUTCH fossils and stromatolites in our pictuer library records.
 
OUR SUN’S LIFE = 1 KALP DAY (4320000000 YEARS) + 1 KALP NIGHT (4320000000 YEARS) = 8640000000 yeas match to scienec evedence of 9Bn years more accurately
 
Origin of river is the oldest source of river water. if water in the river Origin dries rest of the river also dries along the path. e.g. JAMNOTRI / GANGOTRI etc.  Even if the river dries at the distant end the underground water flows if the origin of the river has the water source. 

e.g. Gaggar Hakara of Saraswati river basin. If distant end of river water becomes scarce or dries up the river bed at distant end of the river, the civilisation dependent on water of the river will have to move upstream of the river for the source of water.  

Civilisations Move upstream to wards the origin of river for water as time passed and as water become scarcely at distant end of the river.
 
Civilisation on the river banks of the river SARASWATI and civilisations in the Kutch moved upstream to the riverbed where water source was available. Similarly to the river basin of the Indus as river Indus and river Saraswati has common mouth in the present RANN of the KUTCH when it was in the form of the lake.

Also people of the civilisation moved to the other region linked with water and the sea. To the Middle east and Mesopotamia, (See Dholavira film) map available on request also Indus Decoding is available for reference in reference library.

 

Recently No one Visited MARUDA TAKKAR since the area is under the border safety control, but 15000 years older than that of Dholavira and pyramids!!  Ancient port – map available is the world’s oldest port in the RANN of the Kutch in India. Which suggest that,  MARUDA TAKKAR was the oldest origin of the civilisation in the world.

Awaiting for the research from the ASI research team work. They used typical boat to move all over the world by River water channels and Sea, as Dholavira, Indus, haraapan and Egyptian used. So we see similar Boat symbol, which is common in those civilisations. 

 

Civilisations Navigated by Ancient BOATS and astronomical Compass. So Boat symbol remained common for those civilisations, e.g. Kutch Saraswati civilisation, Egypt and Indus as well.  

 

Though western and Egyptian archaeological researchers hide many information regarding those facts or do not agree. Or manipulates the in formations. Include Egypt as well as the Egypt itself is suggestive, Egypt’s Original NAME was MUDRAYA.

MUDRAYA name itself suggestive what it means. If any doubts can be cleared with the Linguistic study. name from an  ancient Avestha/ Old Persian derived from SANSKRIT. Decoding of Egyptian and OLD PERSIAN AVESTAN languages are available for reference from the reference library. Including ATHARVAN ZARATHUSHTRA (also OLD Persian used atharveda -ATHARVAN ZARATHUSHTRA)

 

ALSO Egyptians worshiped Sun GOD (SURYA), Cows as mother of Gods (KAMDHENU), Snake (NAAG DEVA), Eagle – (GARUDA),  Kings Ramses and king dynasty of RAMESIS, Queen of the EGYPTIAN KING RAMESIS first  was SITARE ,

 

Queen Matare (MATA) from maternal queen dynasty.  Queen HATSHEPSUT = HAsT kSHEP SUT – has missing phonatic half letter which is not understood by non phonatic languages like arabic/ egyptian/latins

And also Symbolic language used in MUDRAYA – EGYPT is not equvelent to PHONATIC language. Queen HATSHEPSUT / HAsT kSHEP SUT it self suggestive that she was aginst King dynasty and she used the beard and become the Queen of the Egypt.

IT interptuted  (HAsT kSHEP =HATSHEP) the ruling by King dynasty.  and she was not the SUT (SON). Now the name of the queen itself becomes suggestive that Queen HATSHEPSUT = HAsT kSHEP SUT.

Ancient Languages SANSKRIT, Old PERSIAN language AVESTHA is similar to SANSKRIT and believed derived from Sanskrit. Decoding is available for the reference form the reference library for the ancient Avestha /Old Persian language which was derived from SANSKRIT.

Decoding of Egyptian and OLD PERSIAN AVESTAN languages are available for reference from the reference library. Including ATHARVAN ZARATHUSHTRA (also OLD Persian used Atharva veda -ATHARVAN ZARATHUSHTRA)

 

European Hippies /GIPO believe them selves as original Indian of origin, and also worship STONEHENGE as their worship place as they originated from India and bought Astronomical aspect

For the Investigation purpose a trench is underway since 1st April2008 for 2weeks investigations. And if truth is not covered up as usual then findings of ancient potteries and the writing and design will prove the fact.

 

ESKIMOES – believed to be originated from indian of the AMERICAN origin but now that truth has come out to be original ASIANS – not americans – proven with MATERNAL Mitochondrial genetic study.

Mitochondrial genetic DNA are the original source of Mother and transmitted from generations to generations from mothers . and Without mother generations do not go on. we can get paternal genes , DNA from any sourse but Mother is always required. that can not be changed.

Nothing will grow in space – One need the Mother first even in the space if wish to grow. even to germinate seed one has to take earthern material and water to the space to germinate any thing in the space.

 

Prehistoric Hair Suggests 1st Eskimos Came From Asia http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/05/080529-eskimo-hair.html
for
National Geographic News May 29, 2008

paleo-eskimo hair and knife picture

A clump of frozen human hair from northwest Greenland suggests that the first Eskimos in the New World did not descend from Native Americans as previously thought but came directly from Asia, a new study says. Furthermore, these pioneer settlers of the far north later died out and did not give rise to the Inuit living in Greenland today.

The research is based on DNA analysis of ancient hair from a so-called Paleo-Eskimo, which was found preserved in permafrost soil in the Disco Bay area in the 1980s.

The hair, which belonged to a male who lived some 4,000 years ago, has provided the first ever complete mitochondrial genome for an ancient human, according to a team led by Tom Gilbert of the Center for Ancient Genetics at the University of Copenhagen, Denmark.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed down from mother to child and thus gives a genetic marker to an individual’s maternal ancestry.

In the ancient Greenland Eskimo’s case, his hair revealed that his people came from Siberia, the study found.

The Paleo-Eskimo’s genetic relatives survive today only in small pockets in north-eastern Siberia and the Aleutian Islands, which stretch across the Bering Sea from Alaska to Russia, Gilbert said. (See a map of the islands.)

 

Challenging Theories

 

Previously, there were two main theories to explain the ancestry of the first Eskimos in Alaska, Canada, and Greenland, Gilbert said.

The theories held that they either descended from Native Americans who colonized North America at least 14,350 years ago, or they came from the same source area in Siberia that gave rise to modern Eskimos, such as those who have lived in Greenland for the past 1,000 years.

‘Then there is a third idea that they were independent to both—and that’s what it turns out to be,’ Gilbert said.

 

The new research, which appears tomorrow in the journal Science, suggests that the original Paleo-Eskimos of the New World were replaced by later colonizers, who spread eastward from Siberia.  

Civilisation moved from Kutch MARUDA port to Middle East, to Mesopotamia and Egypt and to Europe, and  from Europe to American continent, Across Atlantic  MEXICO, Peru brazil Amazon etc.

 

People move from one area to other area but they carry on their farming and weaving techniques and so Egyptians do similar farming and cattle farming as well. Common thing for the civilisation in farming and weaving techniques carried with them where ever they go.

RED Indians / Egyptians all used similar techniques for farming and weaving as indo Sarasvati civilisation used.

 

Red Indians are original Indians and they carry on their farming techniques they brought with them since then. Including traditional flowers of MERRY GOLD flower used for every holy purpose And to the ancestors.

MAYA and Mayan books of Mexico suggest that Indian crossed the Atlantic from Europe and lived in Mexican caves before 20000 years ago. Decoding is available – books original information are available for reference form the reference library. Including MAYAN CODOSIS  and decoding Mayan language.

Romani people (Gypsies or Gipsies)
 
The Romani people[46][47], Roma people[48][49][50] or Romany people are an ethnic group with origins in South Asia.[51][52] The Romani people are a widely dispersed ethnic group, with the largest concentrated populations in Europe and the Americas.[53][54] They are often referred to as Gypsies or Gipsies. 
 
Origins
The absence of a written history has meant that the origin and early history of the Roma people was long an enigma. As early as 200 years ago, cultural scholars hypothesised an Indian origin of the Roma based on linguistic evidence[83]. Genetic information confirms this.
Although the Nazis claimed that the Gypsies were not Aryan,[citation needed] some members of the Gypsy Lore Society (established in 1888 in England) claimed that the Gypsies were the most ancient Aryans and “sought to protect them from mixing with non-Gypsy elements and from modernization…”.[84]

Linguistic evidence

Until the mid to late eighteenth century, theories of the origin of the Roma were mostly speculative. Then in 1782, Johann Christian Christoph Rüdiger published his research that pointed out the relationship between the Romani language and Hindustani.[85] Subsequent work supported the hypothesis that Romani shared a common origin with the Indo-Aryan languages of Northern India,[86] with Romani grouping most closely with Sinhalese in a recent study.[87]
The majority of historians accepted this as evidence of an Indian origin for the Roma, but some maintained that the Roma acquired the language through contact with Indian merchants.[88]
 

An  ADDITIONAL readings of BIOMEDICAL, GENETICS, GENETIC STUDY of DNA  in our GENETICS Library of Kutch science foundation.

Biology Complete Library  +500s of Books

Human Anatomy Science and complete Medical Library for medical university and research students. + 1500 BOOKS

Full medical science library, medical dictionary and Ayurvedic information library INCLUDING BIOMEDICAL, GENETICS, + 1500 BOOKS
The Place of the Indian mtDNA Variants in the Global Network Maternal Lineages and the Peopling of the Old World
HUMAN MITOCHONDRIAL DNA HAPLOGROUP R IN INDIA DISSECTING
Fundamental genomic unity of ethnic India is revealed by analysis of mitochondrial DNA
Eurasia Populations genetics mtDNA HAPLOGROUP
Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages

BMC Phylogeography of mtDNA haplogroup R7 in the Indian peninsula 
Population substructure in Finland and Sweden revealed

 

Genetic evidence Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)

 

In human genetics, Haplogroup H (M69) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup.

This haplogroup is found at a high frequency in India and Sri Lanka. It is generally rare outside of the Indian subcontinent but is common among the Roma people, particularly the H-M82 subgroup.
 
Distribution
Very low frequencies of the Haplogroup H are found among populations of Pakistan compared to the frequency of this haplogroup among Indian populations. A recent study of Y-chromosome variation among populations of Pakistan found Haplogroup H1-M52 Y-chromosomes in only 2.5% of a sample of the general Pakistani population (16 out of 638 individuals), and this haplogroup was also found at similar frequencies among ethnic Pashtuns (4/96 or 4.2%) and Burusho (4/97 or 4.1%). Surprisingly, Haplogroup H1-M52 was found at a much higher frequency among this study’s sample of Kalash (9/44 or 20.5%) (Firasat et al. 2007).
Haplogroup H has been found very rarely outside of the Roma and populations of the Indian subcontinent, including approximately 6% (1 out of 17 individuals) of a sample of Kurds from Turkmenistan, 4% (2/53) of Iranians from Samarkand, 2% (1/56) of Uzbeks from Bukhara, 3% (2/70) of Uzbeks from Khorezm, 2% (1/63) of Uzbeks from the Fergana Valley, 4% (2/45) of Uzbeks from Samarkand, 12.5% (2/16) of Tajiks from Dushanbe, 2% (1/41) of Uyghurs from Kazakhstan (Wells et al. 2001), 2% (1/50) of Ukrainians, and 5% (1/20) of Syrians.[1] The subclade H1a-M82 has also been found in 2.56% (3/117) of a sample of the population of southern Iran (Regueiro et al. 2006). Some instances of haplogroup H have also been found among populations of the east coast of the Arabian Peninsula, including 2.4% (4/164) haplogroup H*(xH1-M52) and 1.8% (3/164) haplogroup H1a-M82 in Oman and 1.4% (1/72) H1a-M82 in Qatar (Cadenas et al. 2007).
 
Haplogroup M (mtDNA)
 
In human genetics, Haplogroup M is a human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroup.(ONLY DERIVED FROM MATERNAL GENES maternal mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroup)

An enormous haplogroup spanning many continents, the macro-haplogroup M is a branch of the haplogroup L3. It is the single most common mtDNA haplogroup in Asia,[2] and is ubiquitous in India[3] where it represents about 60% of maternal lineages.[4]
M is believed to have originated in Asia[1] some 60,000 to 75,000 years before present:

The deep roots of M phylogeny clearly establish the antiquity of Indian lineages, especially M2, as compared to Ethiopian M1 lineage and hence, support an Asian origin of M macrohaplogroup.[4]

Among the descendants of M are C, D, E, G, Q, and Z, with Z and G being observed in North Eurasian populations, C and D being shared between North Eurasian and Native American populations, E being observed in Southeast Asian populations, and Q being observed in Melanesian populations. The lineages M2, M3, M4, M5, M6, M18 and M25 are exclusive to India, with M2 reported to be the oldest lineage on the Indian sub-continent.[5] M7 and M8 are widespread Eastern Eurasian lineages.
Due to its great age, haplogroup M is an mtDNA lineage which does not correspond well to present-day ethnic groups, as it spans Siberian, Native American, East Asian, Southeast Asian, Central Asian, South Asian, Melanesian as well as Egyptian, Ethiopian, Somali, European, and various Middle Eastern populations in lesser frequency.

Further evidence for the Indian origin of the Roma came in the late 1990s when it was discovered that Roma populations carried large frequencies of particular Y chromosomes (inherited paternally) and mitochondrial DNA (inherited maternally) that otherwise exist only in populations from South Asia.
47.3% of Roma men carry Y chromosomes of haplogroup H-M82 which is rare outside of the Indian subcontinent.[89] Mitochondrial haplogroup M, most common in Indian subjects and rare outside Southern Asia, accounts for nearly 30% of Roma people.[89] A more detailed study of Polish Roma shows this to be of the M5 lineage, which is specific to India[90] Moreover, a form of the inherited disorder congenital myasthenia is found in Romani subjects. This form of the disorder, caused by the 1267delG mutation, is otherwise only known in subjects of Indian ancestry. This is considered to be the best evidence of the Indian ancestry of the Romanies.[91]
The Roma have been described as “a conglomerate of genetically isolated founder populations”,[92] while a number of common Mendelian disorders among Romanies from all over Europe indicates “a common origin and founder effect”.[92] See also this table: [93]
A study from 2001 by Gresham et al. suggests “a limited number of related founders, compatible with a small group of migrants splitting from a distinct caste or tribal group”.[94] Also the study pointed out that “genetic drift and different levels and sources of admixture, appear to have played a role in the subsequent differentiation of populations”.[94] The same study found that “a single lineage … found across Romani populations, accounts for almost one-third of Romani males. A similar preservation of a highly resolved male lineage has been reported elsewhere only for Jewish priests”.[94] See also the Cohen Modal Haplotype.
A 2004 study by Morar et al. concluded that the Roma are “a founder population of common origins that has subsequently split into multiple socially divergent and geographically dispersed Gypsy groups”.[91] The same study revealed that this population “was founded approximately 32–40 generations ago, with secondary and tertiary founder events occurring approximately 16–25 generations ago”.[91]
 

Forwarded With Comments from: Dr. BHUDIA : Science Group Of INDIA.
 http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/venustransit_2004/ 
President:’Kutch Science Foundation’.
Founder :’Kutch Amateurs Astronomers Club – Bhuj – Kutch’.
Life Member:’kutch Itihaas Parishad’.

http://uk.geocities.com/wildlifeofkutch/
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/scienceclubofindia
/
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/kutchscience/
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/kachchh/
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/bhuj/

Do visit our ABOVE Clubs/Groups of Science club of India, Science Group of India.